1803 Angier Avenue

Gary, you mentioned flipping vs renovation and have previously shown some real wrecks that are beautifully renovated. We are seriously considering purchasing in a city where a blighted downtown is (or appears to be) turning around. The more I dig, the more nervous I am about flippers selling pretty packages that will disintegrate from poor workmanship. OTOH, I don't want to be so suspicious that we talk ourselves into cookie cutter suburbia. Any advice or resources you can suggest so we can go in with some pertinent information and a realistic expectations?

I think you're right to be cautious on a flip. I used the term somewhat - um - flippantly here to denote the economic timeframe, not to reflect the quality of the work. But when the motivation is purely economic, I do think you're more likely to see poor product from a flip in a neighborhood that's transitional. It all really depends on the specific person, their contractor, and their motivations. A couple of things I'd do:

1 ) Check the deed records and figure out how much the person bought the building for.
2) Check into the person who did the renovation. Do they have a track record? Or a record?
2) Build a relationship with a contractor that didn't work for the seller - if you can generally describe the condition of the building, ask them to give you a very rough estimate of the per square foot cost to get it to current condition. Here, I would guess that the number should be between $80-$120/sf, depending on what condition the building was in, and how high end the renovation is. You may need to add in more for landscaping, an architect, etc. if relevant.
3) If asking price doesn't = acquistion + rough cost + ~20% profit, then amp up your radar. If it's a hot micro-submarket (i.e., "everyone wants to be in this block") profit may be higher.
4) If you enter into a contract, you should have an inspection period. Don't only use a house inspector. Bring the contractor you talked to previously, foundation contractor if applicable, structural engineer if applicable. If you don't need to do additional work, you'll likely need to pay them by the hour or a minimum, but it's well worth it.
5) If they find badness, negotiate with the seller to your satisfaction. If the seller is a jerk and blows off the concerns, walk away from the deal.

Again, it comes down to the seller - and sometimes, the seller may be inexperienced themselves, and not have gotten a good product out of the renovating contractor - so it isn't necessarily a malicious thing. The more data you have about the building, the more intelligent conversation you can have with the seller.

If the seller has an agent selling the building and wants to use the agent as a bulwark, get an experienced agent yourself. Consider doing so regardless. A good agent can give you market information that can give you a sense of whether the building price 'adds up.' They aren't a substitute for the due diligence above, but if the seller has an agent, you absolutely want an agent to ensure that you get a proper dialogue with the seller.

This is off the top of my head, and not a comprehensive guide to renovated house buying, but I hope it's helpful

GK

Gary, I am pleased to learn where all of this started for you. I am repulsed 1) that such a pretty and historic home was demolished, and 2) the arrogance of the group that did it. I've learned so much about the history of Durham through this blog. It has propelled me to learn more. Another reason I want to move back to Durham. Once I do, I can't wait to visit these places. I'm so appalled at the beautiful and historic residences that have been destroyed, and especially for no real reason, other than "urban renewal". Where's the "renewal" part of it? Durham has long needed an advocate for bringing it back, but it's tough when you have an ignorant City Council and government that doesn't care about history. I'm planning on coming up this summer to do some interviewing. I'd like to be back there after Labor Day, providing I have a job in the area. I want to see all the new things happening there and can hardly wait. Thank you for your time and diligence in this effort. I'm going to be in touch with the Old West Durham Neighborhood president when I'm there, and he's promised to take me for a tour!

Gary,
What incredibly helpful and concise advice when contemplating a house that someone else has renovated.

Thanks, Gary. (That was me asking above. Too lazy to sign in last night, I guess.)

That is helpful and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. It helps me pull together a better search plan and verbalize some instinctual resistance I'd been feeling about some of the properties we've seen so far. ITA about inspections. I wouldn't even buy a new property without an inspection. I guess the biggest trick will be finding inspectors who aren't BFFs with the seller or realtor.

We credit ED and you for even thinking about looking at downtown properties.

If you ever decide to add video to the ED site, I bet there are people who would be interested in "here's the potential" walk+throughs on properties done by someone who isn't trying to profit from said property.

For those who don't know Gary in person, I'd like to make sure that this sentence doesn't get misinterpreted:

"Times have changed for the better since I started Endangered Durham 5 years ago."

Some might think that the author's "since" is an attempt to claim credit for the changes that followed at NIS and Preservation Durham. But from what I know of Gary, I strongly suspect that he's only using "since" in the sense of "after", not "because".

That said, I also strongly suspect that many of the improvements at NIS and Preservation Durham have definitely happened -because- he started Endangered Durham.

Many people in Durham are pulling us forward. I'd just like to say that some people deserve extra credit -- not only for their labor, but also for their influence. Whether we call Gary's influence "leadership", "agitation" or "zealotry" (or anything else) is another subject (grin). For now, I'm just glad that it IS.

I'm not sure what you mean, Phil. Of course any and all good stuff is due to me and Endangered Durham. And, to be clear, all of the teardowns/remuddling over the last 5 years, and ongoing, are someone else's responsibility.... :)

This is as good a place as any to again voice my incredible respect and admiration for what you have done, Gary, both here on this site and in Durham.

For me, personally, Endangered Durham has given me a richer, deeper, more dynamic sense of Durham, one that is more four-dimensional. I now find myself seeing not only what buildings and culture and people occupy a particular place, but also what was there before those things, what led up to them.

Perhaps even more importantly, Gary, you have also helped me see my WHOLE city, not just the parts I used to restrict myself to. By consistently (relentlessly?) posting page after page of homes and neighborhoods in parts of town I normally would not visit, you make those parts known to me and less "scary." One result is that I now have expanded my "comfort zone" in Durham into areas of people from other races and backgrounds. I am now much more comfortable in those areas, and visit them far more frequently than I once did.

Thanks, Gary. You're really doing some great work here.

Kwix

That's likely the most rewarding comment about my work/effort I've ever received - to know that this has done for you, personally, what I've so much hoped to accomplish, generally, is incredibly gratifying. Thank you so much for letting me know this.

Gary

This is as good a place as any to again voice my incredible respect and admiration for what you have done, Gary, both here on this site and in Durham. For me, personally, Endangered Durham has given me a richer, deeper, more dynamic sense of Durham, one that is more four-dimensional. I now find myself seeing not only what buildings and culture and people occupy a particular place, but also what was there before those things, what led up to them. Perhaps even more importantly, Gary, you have also helped me see my WHOLE city, not just the parts I used to restrict myself to. By consistently (relentlessly?) posting page after page of homes and neighborhoods in parts of town I normally would not visit, you make those parts known to me and less "scary." One result is that I now have expanded my "comfort zone" in Durham into areas of people from other races and backgrounds. I am now much more comfortable in those areas, and visit them far more frequently than I once did. Thanks, Gary . You're really doing some great work here.

Kwix That's likely the most rewarding comment about my work/effort I've ever received - to know that this has done for you, personally, what I've so much hoped to accomplish, generally, is incredibly gratifying. Thank you so much for letting me know this. Gary

Gary, I'm very glad to let you know this, because it is very true. I now go out of my way to go through neighborhoods I once avoided! And I now feel part of a community that includes those who came before us as well as those who live in a different part of town than I do. You've labored long and hard, Gary, and I'm really looking forward to the the new site. I contributed (what is for me) a significant sum because I believe in what you're doing here. Good luck!